that could do 2 up.....cruise 80 on the slab comfortably....and do dirt roads.
What would you get and why ?
I would lean toward the dirt road side with the KTM 950 Adventure I guess. Seems like it'd have the legs for the highway, and still ride like a dirt bike when necessary. ...and I just like them.
On ADV there was a couple that did the TAT 2-up.
#1. KTM 950/990 Adventure <---gets my vote cause I had one and it rocked!
#2 BMW R1200GS Adventure
Is there really any other serious competition?
If you are talking dirt roads but nothing more serious than that for offroad, I'd probably get a V-strom 1000.
Being another former 950 ADV owner, I'd have to pass on that for two up riding. It was OK for two up but my wife didn't like it nearly as well as the other bikes I've had. Awesome bike for sure but I think you can do better for the money in terms of 2-up and reliability.
I guess Mike needs to define "dirt roads" for us. ;D
if by dirt you just mean to get from your house to the pavement, i'd get a blackbird!!! ;D
if you mean a little more dirt than that, i'd go for a vstrom 1000. those katooms are awesome bikes, but you'd save a bunch of coin on a vstrom. ditto the bmw. plus if you have 2 beemers you are going to become "that guy." you will save money on the purchase price as well as maintenance.
Oh yeah, I guess I kinda blocked out how the maintenance can be a nightmare with the KTM 8) Go VStrom if you need to save some coin...if money is no object - GS! I know of at least one VStrom that made it over Pilot Knob. :evil
Ductati multistrada 1100ds. Decent price with the new 1200s on the market and an absolute thrill to ride. With the right tires it will handle gravel and hardpack just fine
Your all a bunch of dual sport wet brains! So am I, except for the Ducati and the Blackbird ( I'll google em)
My street bike expierience....I rode a buddy's crotch rocket in high school (750 I recall), another buddies Hardley during Rally once, and I had a couple Jawa 250's for paper delivery duties. And the Xcountry that I currently have which will stay. The rest is dirt.
Maybe a little about what I don't want....
I don't want it to be too good in the dirt because I'd just take it too far.
I don't wan't anything too nice or exotic because chances are good I'll take it too far.
It needs to be reliable(relative) because I'd hope to take it too far.
I'd like it to be good for 2up, but 95% of the time it would just be me.
I'm open to anything between a 950SE and a Goldwing.
I like the Yamaha FJR and Honda ST1300 for the looks alone ,but have never ridden anything like it.
I test rode an f800 and It didn't have enough wind protection...but cruising at 80 wasn't a problem. The GS1200 was lighter than I expected(maybe reading about how heavy it is adds 100 pounds in my mind) But as Brett said, I don't want to be that guy. Even though that dealer is the closest. So I just don't know........................................... ???
Well I'd probably vote for the Blackbird too if there wasn't too much gravel :)
Quote from: plumber mike on June 15, 2010, 06:45:19 PM
I like the Yamaha FJR and Honda ST1300 for the looks alone ,but have never ridden anything like it.
Kawasaki C14...google it...'nuff said. 8) Won't ride anything rougher than gravel, though.
If you wanna stay mostly in the dirt, and give up the "2-up" thing, the WR250R is just what you described. ;D
i had a 2005 fjr and they are VERY nice bikes. honda st1100's and st1300's are also very nice bikes. on the spectrum from sport to touring i would rate:
blackbird - fjr - connie (new or old model) - st1100/1300 - goldwing
you couldn't do wrong with any of these bikes. an old kawasaki concours would be a cheap no risk way to see if you like sport touring. they are the klr of the sport touring world. not the prettiest, but works very well and you can't find too many people that will say anything bad about them.
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/mcy/1774529374.html
Yeah, that's how I'd rate 'em too, the Connie seems to be the perfect balance of sport & touring. The GL1800s can be ridden at a surprisingly spirited pace as well, had to replace my footpegs from too much scraping. :evil
Although the old Connie just doesn't hold a candle to the C14 in terms of torque or speed, they are very reliable and can be had relatively cheap these days. My C14 had a blast furnace effect on the right leg, but they may have fixed that by now. I got rid of mine solely because I thought I might just kill myself if I didn't. :o
Another GL1800 is in my future, just not my immediate future.
Local Suzy shop has a decent Connie for $2K. It has some miles on it (50K maybe) but that aint much for one of those.
And in the spectrum of sport to touring, I'd place the Busa, Bird, and ZX-14 as about the same.
Quote from: Hank on June 16, 2010, 10:31:53 AM
I'd place the Busa, Bird, and ZX-14 as about the same.
i hate to be roped into the same category as a busa rider, and we refined types know that the xx is clearly superior of the 3 in terms of comfort and buttery smoothness.
but yea, they are pretty similar bikes. :-\
I'll go along with that :)
And they are a Honda, which says a lot. Although lately Honda has me scratching my head... But Birds come from the day when Honda still really had their crap together...
For street I would have to opt for the K1300GT BMW, that would be a pretty decent replacement for my 00 Triumph Sprint ST that has provided so much trouble free sport and tour duty. That GS1200 Adventure would have to be considered even though its not a straight street bike, I would tour that thing to the ends of the earth.
this looks like a pretty cool bike. bmw sport touring with abs, on the cheap!
http://www.powerbrokersblackhills.com/motorcycles/files/94r1100rs.htm
the much over looked DL 1000 suz parts avail cheap..er and the 1k for 2 up.
kawi con .. older (drive shaft)
04 or older BMW K GT if you want drive-shaft and ABS
Honda ST dependable drive-shaft and it's a Honda.
I had FJR fast bike can comfortable at 65 and below but if ever a bike needed a 6th gear it's the FJR for sustained highway.
an older Honda wing must be considered as well as older GS BMW
older RT BMW are usually cheap and the damn things generally go forever.
bottom line comfort is king at 80 2up, go with what fits and gives decent wind protection.
BTW Mike I have a DL if you want to test the 2 up at 80 (not for days or anything) for a decent trial and it's close...
then again this would work very well:
http://sd.craigslist.org/mcy/1814654314.html and it's close to you. might want to put standard bars on it, or at least that's what I would do. http://sd.craigslist.org/mcy/1814654314.html (http://sd.craigslist.org/mcy/1814654314.html) the guy works at sturgis bmw in parts I believe.
That Beemer is sexy....and affordable.
I haven't had a chance to look at anything since I've been so busy working. Hopefully that means i'll have the dough when I do.
I am curious about the Honda NT700 , but they don't have any at the Honda dealer in Spearfish.
The Xcountry is pulling double duty for now, and doing a fine job of it.....but Nemo road could be much more fun.....just ask Excess.
Quote from: plumber mike on July 30, 2010, 02:50:22 PM
I am curious about the Honda NT700 , but they don't have any at the Honda dealer in Spearfish.
if you wanted a new bike they would be pretty tempting. i like them a lot. they are just a very updated version of the bike i ride every day. 1983 gl650i. (673cc v-twin factory hard bags and fairing) That was only $1k though.
you could find some a nice used sport tourer and a nice used klr for the price of a nt700.
there is something to be said for buying a bike new though...
OK....OK.... Just have to get my 17.3 cents in.
VALKYRIE!!!!!!!
Great bulletproof motor....lotsa torque....handles much better in the curves than you'd think (low center of gravity) and really comfortable on the long haul.
Running my Valkyrie down Spearfish Canyon at "pucker your sphincter" speed is a BLAST.
You'll find some great used (because sillly Honda decided to quit making them) bikes around the $6,000 area.
Case in point.......1998 HONDA VALKYRIE (GL1500) - $5500 (OMAHA) Craigslist PostingID: 1875884613. Maybe not the best color but you get my point.
I've owned mine for over 12 years and it's the best bike I've ever owned. Now...If I could only find the right size knobbies.
See ya'll in about 6 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JoniJo
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson
I saw a nice older BMW R100 airhead (1700.00)the other day. With bags and a simple "clean up" modernization, I think that would be allot of fun. I had a R100RS and put about 20K on it and have a fond spot for bikes with character that don't strand you.
I haven't had a chance to ride the bikes I have :'(I'm saving my pennies and hoping to score something in the fall when prices are lower(so I can spend more to get more bike for the money)
I am really liking the FJR's and the Blackbird type of sport tourers. The beemers are sexy but parts prices are so high. A local friend has a Wing that just dosen't seem to be selling, but thats alot of bike on my "road of marbles". I really like the older airheads, but I don't want to have to throw a ton into repairs. Still torn.....stay tuned :)
I've been eyeballing the C14's a bit lately myself. I likely won't get one, but I think it would be a great bike for my purposes.
Read some reviews on the 2010's and it sounds like they were refined into an even better bike this year. Ebay and Craiglist have a ton of 08/09's, both carryover and lightly used. Saw one carryover 08 for 9K, which is pretty sweet considering it retailed around 13 or 14.
Quote from: Hank on August 04, 2010, 06:51:24 AM
I've been eyeballing the C14's a bit lately myself. I likely won't get one, but I think it would be a great bike for my purposes.
how so versus your xx? i'm thankful that so far nothing currently available tempts me to replace my blackbird. the newer bmw sport tourers or the new viffer if it had a larger tank are in the ballpark but not near close enough, especially when cost is considered.
i've got givi side cases and topcase on my xx and it is every bit as comfortable as my fjr was. it fits me like a glove and 1000 mile days are effortless on it. the c14 is a much bigger bike, not near as buttery smooth, but better wind protection, factory bags, and comfort for a passenger.
my 05 fjr1300 was an awesome bike. i ordered it new, put 25000 miles on it (in 18 months), took excellent care of it, had to fix the tranny, thought that shouldn't have happened, sold the yammy and bought a honda. never looked back!
we are really splitting hairs mike. connies, wings (gls), vfrs, stroms, sts, fjrs, bmw's, etc... are all awesome bikes with low maintenance. you can't go wrong with any of them.
course i think you NEED a klr.
I'd have to ride a C14 to know if its better, but from the reviews I've read they say engine wise its much smoother than the FJR. Don't know how it stacks against the XX. I wouldn't want to sacrifice any of that buttery smoothness though.
I do really like the looks and shaft drive (the 4 bar link setup works great) on the C14 too, but from what I've seen the '10 model would be the way to go, and I'm not spending that much. The heat management sounds much improved, and from what the Yeti said and what else I've read the older models really cooked your legs. No thanks on that. So if I can't have a '10 model, which I can't, I'm sticking with the XX.
The two areas I'd like to improve on the XX are riding position and suspension. I've made mucho headway by adding the LSL bar kit and lower pegs, but I'd still like to get a bit more upright. It's really an easy fix though, just need to swap the bars for something taller. It will require new upper hydraulic lines, throttle and choke cables, and longer control pod wires, but that's cheap comparted to a new bike!
The suspension is probably my biggest bitch, especially the front fork. I know they made some valving changes around 99, but my ol' 97 has a really harsh fork, and the rear shock isn't anything to write home about either.
My plan for now is to graft on a 'busa front end. Busas are a dime a dozen and a mint set of forks can be head for a couple hundred bucks. I've seen it done and the XX looks pretty killer with inverted forks and a busa fender, and the ride would be much improved. I'm about 99% sure I'll do it this winter, then I might just get the shock revalved at the same time.
With those changes, I think I'd be a really happy camper. I've added GIVI bags to mine now too, and they are sweet.
Or I could just live with it the way it is, and still have a bike that can do a 1K mile day without much complaint, but for me half the fun of having a bike is finding ways to make it better and different... so I'll likely change it :)
I really, really loved my C14...except for the cooked right leg, that really was the deal breaker. Well, that and the fact that I have NO right wrist restraint. :evil
Recently, I've really been missing riding two-up with the wife, but am really unsure which direction to go. She really love the "recliner" seat on the back of our (long gone) GL1800, but I didn't like the weight/bulk of it. She didn't mind the back seat on the C14, so if the new ones have solved the heat issues, that may be my next bike (again)! ;D
It is one sexy beast...
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/jasonh_010/C14/c14.jpg)
Anybody ever own a Hayabusa? I agree with Hank they seem cheap and available.
lots of guys don't like the heat that comes with keeping 160+ horses between your legs. my fjr had some heat, but it was awesome in the winter and not bad in the summer as long as you were wearing proper gear. it was the same on left and right. having 1 side hot and the other side cool would have bugged me. i'm all about symmetry.
shaft drive would be nice. the chain isn't bad, but it is still a lot bigger pain than the zero maintenance of a shaft.
i've never ridden a bike with good suspension. my xx get's compared to my klr and my 83 gl650, so the suspension is awesome to me because i don't know any better. they guy i bought it from was about 300lbs so he put stiffer fork springs in. it is harsh on really rough roads, but other than that, i love it. sure beats the 1975 buick like ride of my gl.
busa forks do look sweet. that and a re-valve would go a long way in the susp dept. if you need upright seating, a connie would certainly fit the bill quite well.
psycko, i wouldn't own a busa if it was given to me. way too many images of squids come to mind when i hear that word.
a busa may have some advantages, but those who know say that the blackbird is a far superior long distance super sport tourer.
I've never owned a Busa but I've put quite a few miles on one.
I prefer the XX to it, even though the Busa has a touch more power. The XX is smoother and just a nicer bke, IMO. Both feel fairly heavy.
To me busas are eye sore ugly, another big win for the XX.
Never rode a busa in the twisties but I know most people prefer the XX's handling.
The worst thing about the busa, as Bret says, is that every backwards baseball hat and sandal wearing squid has one.
Busas front forks are better :)
I can't say I've ever ridden a bike with really GREAT suspension either, but yeah its all relative. My 94 VFR and my 99 Superhawk both rode much better, if memory serves, than my XX. I know 99 and newer XX's were improved though too.
Quote from: Hank on August 04, 2010, 10:02:15 AM
but for me half the fun of having a bike is finding ways to make it better and different... so I'll likely change it :)
so when are you going to perfect that 6th gear for the drz400?
i know it is impossible without fabricating a larger engine case (or something to that lines) but if you somehow made it work you would certainly sell a few thousand kits.
mike may even want a drz instead of a klr or a street bike if you pulled that off (trying to keep the thread relevant to the original topic!).
While 6th would be nice, a much easier solution would be to just make a much taller 5th gear set. I tried to find a gearset that would work but struck out, and making your own would be really expensive at low volumes.
Really, why would it hurt to have a huge RPM drop from 4th to 5th. I've never used 5th offroad, and if you had to wind it up a bit in 4th or lug a bit in 5th, it would be worth it to run comfortably on the highway. You could even gear down 1-4 for better offroad. PITA to install though.
I would think it would be easier to do a double sprocket on the rear with a cable actuated selector(much like my old 10 speed) Then some sort of tensioner would be required. Hmmmm.
Back on track. I appreciate the banter. As I said before, I've never had a true street bike, so it's up to you guys to steer me in the right direction. A pipefitter friend has a Busa and it just looks uncomfortable. My roofer came out to my place an a Honda VTX1800 today. Radio blaring, feet on big platforms. He looked comfortable. I have always liked the ugly fairing of the Road Glide but.....well.......you know :-X
A Busa is really pretty comfortable, at least for reasonable length rides. A little forward lean isn't a bad thing. I'm trying to get my XX semi-upright, not bolt upright. If you can talk him into it, get a ride on that Busa. You might be surprised.
A lot of forward lean is NOT comfortable, ie a GSXR, or FZR (pure sport bike). You don't want to feel like you're doing a 6 hour pushup. I put quite a few miles on a 94ish GSXR1100, and that was way extreme... very tough to ride more than 400 miles a day. Busas are definitely more sport tourer than pure sports bike.
I had a 81 ducati 900SS that was brutal. The farthest I ever rode the thing at one sitting was 75 miles. All the weight on the wrists with clip on's, high rear sets, streched out over the tank. The worst was being in traffic with the heat radiating upward from the engine barely a foot away from your chest. But, hot damn, I don't think I've ever heard a prettier sound then that high strung desmo with basicly straight pipes on the motor!
Quote from: plumber mike on August 04, 2010, 09:26:10 PM
My roofer came out to my place an a Honda VTX1800 today. Radio blaring, feet on big platforms. He looked comfortable.
Just like the extreme forward lean, I've found that the laid-back cruiser position is also uncomfortable after awhile...too much weight on the tailbone and makes my lower back hurt. I prefer a mostly upright riding position.
I test rode a VTX1800 a couple years ago and was very unimpressed with the power...I expected an 1800 to have more grunt than that.
I read an article once that described the perfect riding position as the ability to instantly "stand up" on the pegs in an easy balanced fashion as the best guide to long term comfort on a bike. I have to agree. Any deviance too far from the formula becomes uncomfortable over time.
another 1+ for klr650's! they certainly fit the bill on the stand up test.
I rode a freind's father in laws 91 GL1500 tonight. The old fella is the original owner and the bike has 65k on it. It had good power and a super smooth quiet engine.Very comfortable seat. The bar positioning felt wierd to me. The front fork felt worn out like a NYC taxi suspension going over large potholes and caused the menagerie of plastic to rattle. I see the appeal of the wing,but this one was just not for me. It got very heavy feeling during low speed manuevers, so my sometimes washboard gravel road would be a chore. He's asking 3500(which seemed high, but I could be wrong) I jumped back on the Xcountry and ripped off thinking that the bike I have is like a Cadillac KLR ;D A 17T front sprocket, some panniers and some street tires would make it a decent sport tourer if I don't find anything better that's a good value(picky I know)
I came to my senses and decided to keep the one ton truck, so that will have no bearing on what the next purchase will be(the yellow half ton will most likely be traded off to my excavator to help with repairs on the washed out driveway :'()
Still looking.....stay tuned :)
Quote from: Hank on August 04, 2010, 10:55:00 AM
It is one sexy beast...
(http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa178/jasonh_010/C14/c14.jpg)
STOP THAT!!!
Powersports has a leftover '09 for just over $10K...very tempting. I've also found a "kit" on the C14 forum that supposedly fixes the heat issues with the pre '10s for like $59...makes the $4K - $5K extra for the new version look kinda silly. I also read that the linked brake system on the '10s really sucks!
C'mon, Yeti... we know you like your WRR but a man of your stature deserves to have a bike like the C14 in the garage too. Powersports is having an open house Saturday. According to the flyer they sent me, there will be free hotdogs and hamburgers, and smokin' deals. You could head over there tomorrow, get a free meal, and ride that bike home. Mrs. Yeti will be proud of you. ;D ;D
Here ya go Mike. Get a new bag and you're good to go. If you don't like it you wouldn't be out much, or might even make a buck.
http://siouxfalls.craigslist.org/mcy/1905501570.html
Thanks for the link Hank. That was exactly the type of bike I was looking for when my wife said "your NOT getting another bike, your getting another child" :D
......so I got a bike.....a cheeeep one ($200)
Luckily, I did manage to purchase a 1979 Yamaha XS750 with 24K on the ticker all set up for touring(windjammer fairing, highway pegs, backrest/luggage rack combo and some leather saddlebags) I go pick it up on tuesday, so I'll snap some photo's then.
congrats! on the bike and the kid.
seriously, you will grow to like that bike a lot more than you may think now. old "barn" bikes are friggin great.
I hoping for a little more than a barn bike. It was a commuter last season, and I'm told it runs, but he got tired of buying a battery every year. He is the second owner. It's vintage, but not too vintage(it still has dual discs up front, and a disc and a shaft out back,a five speed and electric and kick start) It should make a good dirt road bike(18" rear, hmmm.... ;))since it it a little smaller than a Goldwing. The Windjammer ??? fairing is so ugly it's cool. It even came with a repair manual and some H-D turn signals and saddle bags.
It needs a battery, a tire, and rear brake work. It needs the seat recovered and some polishing compound to make it a looker again. I'm exicted to try this cheap street bike to see how much I'll like riding a heavy street bike, and how dual sport capable it is.
I'll go get it and start a new thread over in the Yammy section.
Stay tuned.....
I like the DL650 Vstrom better than the DL1000. It is smoother. Not tons of power but enough. I replaced my totalled DL1000 with a Moto Guzzi V7 Classic. It is very charismatic but in my opinion doesn't hold a candle to the Weestrom for reeling in the miles.
(http://ancientmariner.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bikes/IMG1270/1053177383_RyNSP-M.jpg)
Nice garage Dude!
Nice Guzzi! How are you feeling by now?
Sorry for tardy response, Jason. I'm feeling much better. Have already put enough miles on the Guzzi for its initial 600 mile service. I have another month of PT to look forward to but it is definitely working. Foot and shoulder weakness make rolling the bike around, and especially on/off the trailer, something of a challenge. Gets better every day. On the Guzzi, I feel like I'm riding a museum display piece. I like the nostalgia thing but I hope its reliability doesn't hark back to the "good old days" when an on board tool kit wasn't just for the paranoid.
The garage would be ever so much nicer if it were about 4X the size. I'd still have my XV920R (traded in on the DL1000) if there'd been room.
http://www.rycamotors.com/
Check this thing out!!!
Hmm... Taller shock to reduce the kicked out front geometry? My Savage tended to fall into slow turns due to the kicked out forks. I traded a it in on my Weestrom. I loved the 650 thumper engine but didn't like the eronomics. It was the forward controls that I disliked the most. Too hard to let the legs share the load when they're pointing forward instead of downward. I couldn't put many miles on the Savage. The Ryca CS-1 is a thing of beauty. Too bad I'm too old and stiff to bend myself to fit it. No more rearsets for this old fart.
How was the power on the Savage? I really like the Ryca, but am concerned about the size of the frame (I'm over 6 feet), and if the bike has the cajonas to make the effort interesting.
If you know what a 500cc street thumper's engine feels like, the Savage S-40 is a tad better. More displacement. Of course, I don't mean a race tuned thumper. The belt is less mess and hassle than a chain, too. Don't expect eyeball-flattening performance. That isn't what thumpers are about. Light and flickable in turns is where they live (with standard not cruiser steering geometry). My SR500 is kick start. The magic button on the Savage is pretty sweet.
I'm too old for a cafe racer but I would like to have an S-40 based standard bike. I'm 5-8, 190#. I found the Savage's performance pleasant. It was fun to ride.
(http://ancientmariner.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bikes/Picture08520Mar07/662709671_EV7Fh-M.jpg)
Saying good-bye to the Savage.
Thanks for the reply. I've always wanted a SR500, since they were out. Still want your garage!
It must have been in 1978 or so, in Yokohama, when I saw an SR400 parked at the foot of the gangway of my ship. I just about fell over myself. I loved it. When I got divorced in 1981, my first bachelor purchase was a new 1980 SR500. Still have it. Still love it.
(http://ancientmariner.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Bikes/SR500Trip/662710579_vf8So-M.jpg)
On a trip through Colorado a long time ago. I put narrower Seca 400 bars on it to make it easier to tuck in out of the wind. I've since restored the original bars for better leverage.
Quote from: plumber mike on August 23, 2010, 08:27:43 AM
he got tired of buying a battery every year.
Everybody seems to sell Battery Tenders. I prefer the BatteryMINDder Plus, as it claims to actually reduce sulfation by applying a high frequency to the battery. I don't know if it's supposed to jar the sulfation loose, or what. It comforts me to believe the sales pitch. I have one for every vehicle with a battery.
http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/Motorcycle-Battery-Chargers-orderby0-p-1-c-253.html (http://www.batteryminders.com/batterycharger/catalog/Motorcycle-Battery-Chargers-orderby0-p-1-c-253.html)
That's about the coolest photo I've seen...
Could AncientMariner be the first ADV'er ;D :D
Thanks for cool photo.