KLR vs. KTM vs. BMW

[The Yeti]

I don't want to start a whole KLR vs. KTM vs. BMW debate, but.....KLRs are just soooo damn BORING!   

When I had my KLR, it felt like riding a nice sedate old mule - could get through most any terrain, but wasn't terribly exciting while doing it.  I think your guy's desire for the more technical trails is directly related to this; you have to ride the rough stuff to get ANY kind of thrill out of them boring-ass machines. 

On the other hand, riding the KTM is like mounting a thoroughbred racehorse - after my first ride on the KTM, my wife asked me what I thought, I said "This thing is...a...BEAST!", it's a high-speed, exhilarating, exciting, scare-the-shit-out-of-yerself-every-other-minute, no-holds-barred, at-one-with-the-trail/road, motorcycle-Zen type of ride...no comparison in my book.    And I still get a grin from ear to ear every time I get to ride it.

AND, I can get through the rough stuff, just not as fast (or have as much fun) as you guys on KLRs (or similar bikes).  BTW, I'm getting better at this every day I ride, and am starting to enjoy the rough patches more and more, but I still get the biggest thrill out of high-speed, tight two-track. Oh yeah, and hill climbs, I like hill climbs!   

klr's rule, especially considering the coin saved on them versus the big european bikes.

You do have a point there. But, you can get some really nice used KTMs right now for not much more than a new KLR.  I understand that you have to live within yer means....I try to, but usually don't.   

[Hank]

,,,,On the other hand, riding the KTM is like mounting a thoroughbred racehorse ,,,

     

I'd agree 

The downside, along with the cost, is the 2 hour oil changes, 8 hr valve adjustments, and reliability niggles... but what the hell you can't feed a thoroughbred the same crap you feed your shetland either, and they probably break their legs more often too   

I love KLR's, but I wouldn't go back after having a Katoom..     now having both though.. that sounds like a good option...

[loingrader]

I don't want to start a whole KLR vs. KTM vs. BMW debate, but.....

me either, but for the sake of discussion...

first off, i really like ktm's.  most of them are my favorite color (orange versus my pink klr) they are basically race ready from the factory, look like nothing else and ktm has a bunch of awesome models versus 1 or 2 cool models that most brands make.  there are about 5 current ktm models that i could see sitting in my garage someday.

but, the maintenence/reliability thing bugs me.  how many people have to change a water pump seal on a new klr (or honda, yami, suzi, etc)?  oil changes, 5 minutes.  valve checks, easy breasy.  i don't mind paying for quality, and i don't even mind lots of expensive mainentence (ala ducati) but what i don't like is worrying about reliablity on an expensive, state of the art machine that i paid a lot of good money for.  like final drive issues on the big beemers.  it's just not my thing!  there is too much stuff that needs to done to a basically new ktm to get it to last longer, run better and just be as good as it should have been rolling it off the showroom floor.  granted, some of that is emissions stuff, but still.  spending money on farkles is one thing, but these are some factory problems that should not be happening.  again, if it was a ural or something, i would understand, but these machines the cream of the crop.

i've got a klr to bash on it, among other things.  when i go riding in the hills i want to be able to ride the piss out of it and not worry about scratches, dents, etc.  if i was on even a $3600 ktm640, i would be much more careful and be worrying about dumping it instead of just enjoying the ride.  the klr is a blast in the hills cause i just don't care if i go down.  if the thing got launched off a cliff, i wouldn't be out much dough and i could pick up another one in rapid in a matter of hours. 

i would rather be wheeling in an old willys or a samurai than a new rubi.  if i'm worrying about scratches and dent's i'm not having as much fun. just the way i am.

klr's are pretty boring and a ktm could never be called boring.  klr's are very utilitarian, but they are also cheap (to buy and maintain), easy, and hard to kill.  80 mile commute at 70mph.  not a problem.  rocky hillclimbs, not a problem.  159mph.  problem, but that is what the xx is for. 

if i had to have just 1 motorcycle, living in the plains with family all over the u.s. it would probably not be a klr.  but it's fun having more than one in the stable, i can work on one and ride the other.  plus, with my $1200 klr and my $6700 cbr1100xx, i can hit super extra legal speeds as i breeze thru 1000 mile days, and do the dual sport thing too, for less than what a lot of ktm's cost. 

i love high speeds yeti.  i know that you had a c14.  you know what speed is about.  if i went from a c14 or even your wing to a klr as my primary ride, i would be miserable.  i don't have to go fast all the time, but i want to know that i can.   

bottom line.  in my humble opinion, for the money, klr's are damn hard to beat.

stepping off of my soapbox now, having repressed my ktm envy for awhile.

-b

[Caseyjones]

I know the KLR is pretty decent at flicking around in the hills but I have some very long trips planned for it. Im appriciating it for the noted reliability and field servicability. I do plan to get some real distance between myself and any services, that coupled with a low price was my decision for the KLR. I could have bought the BMW or the KTM at the same time but this flips the bill the best for now.

Later on Im going to need a 2 up adventure bike and the KLR certianly aint that, it barely has enough "power" for just me.

I have a healthy respect for the KTM and the BMW but I do believe the KLR will fit my needs better for what Im doing with it. I have already decided Im not going to buy any more bikes that are bound to the pavement so when the 2up needs arise I will keep the KLR and pick up a GS1200 or maybe a 990. Im a long time BMW nut but that KTM is undeniably a sweet machine.

[Hank]

I don't want to start a whole KLR vs. KTM vs. BMW debate, but.....

me either, but for the sake of discussion...

first off, i really like ktm's.  most of them are my favorite color (orange versus my pink klr) they are basically race ready from the factory, look like nothing else and ktm has a bunch of awesome models versus 1 or 2 cool models that most brands make.  there are about 5 current ktm models that i could see sitting in my garage someday.

but, the maintenence/reliability thing bugs me.  how many people have to change a water pump seal on a new klr (or honda, yami, suzi, etc)?  oil changes, 5 minutes.  valve checks, easy breasy.  i don't mind paying for quality, and i don't even mind lots of expensive mainentence (ala ducati) but what i don't like is worrying about reliablity on an expensive, state of the art machine that i paid a lot of good money for.  like final drive issues on the big beemers.  it's just not my thing!  there is too much stuff that needs to done to a basically new ktm to get it to last longer, run better and just be as good as it should have been rolling it off the showroom floor.  granted, some of that is emissions stuff, but still.  spending money on farkles is one thing, but these are some factory problems that should not be happening.  again, if it was a ural or something, i would understand, but these machines the cream of the crop.

i've got a klr to bash on it, among other things.  when i go riding in the hills i want to be able to ride the piss out of it and not worry about scratches, dents, etc.  if i was on even a $3600 ktm640, i would be much more careful and be worrying about dumping it instead of just enjoying the ride.  the klr is a blast in the hills cause i just don't care if i go down.  if the thing got launched off a cliff, i wouldn't be out much dough and i could pick up another one in rapid in a matter of hours. 

i would rather be wheeling in an old willys or a samurai than a new rubi.  if i'm worrying about scratches and dent's i'm not having as much fun. just the way i am.

klr's are pretty boring and a ktm could never be called boring.  klr's are very utilitarian, but they are also cheap (to buy and maintain), easy, and hard to kill.  80 mile commute at 70mph.  not a problem.  rocky hillclimbs, not a problem.  159mph.  problem, but that is what the xx is for. 

if i had to have just 1 motorcycle, living in the plains with family all over the u.s. it would probably not be a klr.  but it's fun having more than one in the stable, i can work on one and ride the other.  plus, with my $1200 klr and my $6700 cbr1100xx, i can hit super extra legal speeds as i breeze thru 1000 mile days, and do the dual sport thing too, for less than what a lot of ktm's cost. 

i love high speeds yeti.  i know that you had a c14.  you know what speed is about.  if i went from a c14 or even your wing to a klr as my primary ride, i would be miserable.  i don't have to go fast all the time, but i want to know that i can.   

bottom line.  in my humble opinion, for the money, klr's are damn hard to beat.

stepping off of my soapbox now, having repressed my ktm envy for awhile.

-b

You pretty much summed up what I like about the KLR.  If I had to have one bike only I'd probably pick a KLR too.   

What I would argue though is that its expensive to get the KTM's factory problems fixed.  A waterpump seal is like $6 (shaft is $11 I think if you need it) and relatively quick to change.   The factory clutch slave cylinder is a weak point, but many people go forever on them (mine is stock and I bet the Yeti's is too).  A bullet proof aftermarket one costs around $150?   The other achilles heal is the fuel pump, but they generally go 15-20K miles and an aftermarket one costs under $50.  So it's not THAT bad.   There are many 75K+ mile adventures running around.   CPmodem on advrider has that has those kind of miles and he didn't even have to change a waterpump seal till close to 70K IIRC.. and he has an '04 which is the worst of the lot.   

I do hate dropping it on rocks though....  $$$$

KLR brakes and suspension don't go that far and aren't exactly cheap to upgrade, and we all know about the doohickey.

[fringefan]

I think the ktm640 adventurer and the BMW f800 are about the ultimate all around bikes and from what I have read the 640 has an excellent engine. If you want to 2up or want a big touring bike the bmw1200 is tuff to beat for an all around bike. The ktm990 is a big bike with mechanical issues and I have not quite figured what it is best intended for and why any one would pick it over the BMW1200 or the KTM640 or the BMWf800? Not sure it is fair to compare a $14k KTM990 with a $5400 KLR650 because the power and suspension are a given. That 990 in the right hands is a beast but it still does not seem great at either end of the spectrum.

KLR is tuff to beat and it is a bike you can afford to beat the crap out of and they rival a timex in durability. When you really break it down it has cheap parts that you can get all over the world and the main complaints can be fixed for very little money. You can have a fully farkled KLR for around 1200.00 in farkles or less and considering mine cost me $1900, that is still a cheap bike.

If I wanted a 2up touring bike I would buy a 1200 and would still ride it just about any where I ride my KLR For a one up and money is not an issue it would be the F800. If I needed a DS for less than 5k I would buy a used KTM640 adventurer and if it needed to be cheaper than that I would buy the KLR. Just my 2 cents.

[Hank]

...The ktm990 is a big bike with mechanical issues and I have not quite figured what it is best intended for and why any one would pick it over the BMW1200 or the KTM640 or the BMWf800? ...

The big KTM can go lots of places a 1200 can't (at least very easily) and it outperforms all of them.   I sure wouldn't want to take a GSA across the rock gardens Allen and I have ridden our 950s through!

[Sportfaller]

being one of the only 1200GSA guys on here I'll join in too!  First off, I think the final drive issue gets overstated quite a bit. From what I've been reading it sounds like the final drive failure is somewhere in the 5-10% range, and i bet those bikes have been thrashed.  I wanted a 990A bad, really bad, but they are not great for two up touring, and being that I can only have one bike, I sold my 1200GT and picked up the GSA. Its a fair mix for the riding I do now, when the pillion gets her own bike, I'll revisit the 990 again, or pick up a thrasher big bore enduro.  If i could have two bikes, it would be a 950 super enduro R and a FJR or 1300GT. 

My big white german pig is a handful offroad, the gearing is too high and the eighty pounds of fuel is ridiculous. It is, however great two up, an excellent tourer, and I can still ride most of the trails.

Still, I want something orange and mean!

[fringefan]

 The big KTM can go lots of places a 1200 can't (at least very easily) and it outperforms all of them.   I sure wouldn't want to take a GSA across the rock gardens Allen and I have ridden our 950s through!
[/quote]

I agree with that. Just seems to me if a guy wanted a big do it all DS I would lean towards the 1200 or better yet the f800 and if you wanted to ride more trails I would sacrifice the power of the 990 for a smaller bike

[Caseyjones]

I had seen a KTM 640 (690?) Adventure at on point but when I went to ride one and possibly buy one I was informed that it was no longer in production and no hint of any pre owned one anywhere.

[The Yeti]

I agree with that. Just seems to me if a guy wanted a big do it all DS I would lean towards the 1200 or better yet the f800 and if you wanted to ride more trails I would sacrifice the power of the 990 for a smaller bike

I don't think there is such a thing as a "a big do it all DS". If you want to really do it all, you're gonna need at least three bikes, IMO. If I won the lottery, it would go something like this - Goldwing, KTM 950SE, WR250R, (and for pure speed, an R1 or similar).

I haven't rode an F800, so can't really comment except from what I've read...but I have rode a big GS (1150), and it just can't compare with the KTM 9x0s.

The ktm990 is a big bike with mechanical issues and I have not quite figured what it is best intended for and why any one would pick it over the BMW1200 or the KTM640 or the BMWf800?

You obviously need to ride my 950, it WILL change your mind!  See Hank's post regarding the "mechnical issues" that get blown way out of proportion on ADVRider, and as far as "what it's best intended for", hmmm...well:

-High speed twisty pavement, solo or 2-up
-High speed desert racing (born and bred)
-High speed dirt two-track (yeeee-haaaaw!)
-Mild to medium off-road 2-up in comfort
-Pretty much any trail in the hills besides the most technical single track (and I'm sure in the hands of the right rider, it'd go through that as well)
-Pure "fun factor"

The only real drawback on the 950 that I see is the weight in the slow, tight stuff...oh, yeah, AND the price! But I live by the motto, "spend it while your here cause you sure as hell ain't takin' it with you!"...and I have no kids to leave it to. 

That 990 in the right hands is a beast but it still does not seem great at either end of the spectrum.

You are just wrong on this one...the 9x0 is great for the entire spectrum with two exceptions; extreme long distance slab & very tight and/or gnarly single track...the rest of the spectrum is covered, in spades.

If I wanted a 2up touring bike I would buy a 1200 and would still ride it just about any where I ride my KLR

I don't doubt, with your off-road ninja skills that I've seen in action, that you could ride the big GS through most anything, but I can guarantee you you won't have much fun doing it (the rough stuff, that is).  And the big GS won't give you the "grin factor" that the KTM will in the easier stuff.

first off, i really like ktm's.  but, the maintenence/reliability thing bugs me.  how many people have to change a water pump seal on a new klr

I could come back with "How many people have to change a doohickey on a brand new KTM", but I won't. 

i don't mind paying for quality, and i don't even mind lots of expensive mainentence (ala ducati) but what i don't like is worrying about reliablity on an expensive, state of the art machine that i paid a lot of good money for.

I do worry a bit about being stranded by my fuel pump, but that's it, and that's only because I haven't picked up a back-up yet.  Other than that, ride it like you stole it!! 

there is too much stuff that needs to done to a basically new ktm to get it to last longer, run better and just be as good as it should have been rolling it off the showroom floor.  granted, some of that is emissions stuff, but still.  spending money on farkles is one thing, but these are some factory problems that should not be happening.

I disagree. Sure, you CAN spend a ton on suspension upgrades, but I've only put about $800-$900 into mine (mostly for ergos - seat, pegs, risers) and am very happy.

i've got a klr to bash on it, among other things.  when i go riding in the hills i want to be able to ride the piss out of it and not worry about scratches, dents, etc.

I don't worry about dents, scratches, etc. on my KTM....I probably should, considering I'm trying to sell it, but if it doesn't effect the way it rides, it just adds character IMO.

bottom line.  in my humble opinion, for the money, klr's are damn hard to beat.

I'd agree, for the money.

I had seen a KTM 640 (690?) Adventure at on point but when I went to ride one and possibly buy one I was informed that it was no longer in production and no hint of any pre owned one anywhere.

Quite a few in the flea market over on ADV right now.

[loingrader]

If i could have two bikes, it would be a 950 super enduro R and a FJR or 1300GT. 

my 05 fjr came down with tranny problems at about 30,000 miles.  probably even less common than final drive issues on the beemers, but once the factory fixed it, i got rid of it.  i don't dwell on most things, but i have a hard time enjoying a ride if i'm wondering when my bike is going to leave me stranded 1000 miles from home.  sold the fjr and got a honda.  now i am back to never worrying about being stranded by my ride.

one of the issues for me about the small reliability issues with the katooms and the bmw's (other than the fact that with the premium price they should not be there) is that these are adventure bikes made specifically to get away from civilization.  if the bike dies when you are 20 miles from a dealer, big deal.  if it dies on your way to tierra del fuego in the mountains of chile, it can be a pretty big deal

[Hank]

Even blackbirds have their little problems (though rare).  Regulator/rectifiers and clutch basket issues...   Nothing is perfect I guess!

[loingrader]

Nothing is perfect I guess!

very true, but the regulator/rectifier issue is the carb bikes only and i've never heard of issues with the clutch basket.  where did you find that info?  maybe a drag bike forum?

the only problem with fuel injected xx's that i am aware of is the rubber band under the seat that holds the tool kit will break after about 10 years.  mine must have been a factory defect because i keep excellent care of the rubber band and mine broke after just 7 years.  but alas, my honfidence warranty had run out so i was forced to pay for repairs myself. 

[Hank]

My bird is a little noisy when idling in neutral w/ the clutch out (bearing / gear sound) and I was looking around to see if that's normal, and found quite a bit of info on clutch basket noise and issues, some that require repair.   It was on the cbr1100xx.org forum.  I don't think its that common.

I ignore my noise now.. it hasn't got worse in 3600 miles.

If I had one real bitch about the blackbird its the clunky shifting, especially N-1, which is also very common.   I don't remember any of my old Hondas having that clunky of shifting.  A minor complaint though.  I wouldn't give that bike up for love nor money.

My KTM shifts like hot butter.   Its so smooth sometimes I think I missed the shift lever.    By far the best shifting bike I've ever owned.